Col (Ret) John R Mills - The Nation Will Follow: First Hand Experiences Fighting the Deep State
14.8.23
Transcript
(Hearts of Oak)
Colonel John Mills, it is wonderful to have you with us today. Thank you so much for your time.
(Col Ret John Mills)
Peter, an absolute honour to be on your show. Thank you.
Absolutely great to have you. And people can see where they can find you, @ColonelRetJohn, on Truth and on GETTR, the nationwillfollow.com, which we're going to get into, but I encourage everyone to go and make use of the website and see what John has put together. And, John, you're so many people, touch a former director of cyber security policy. I know you served 35 years as a colonel and senior civilian, and you've been involved, as I've learned from just reading the book, at many different areas and aspects of, I guess, the government level, the military level, the Pentagon, so many areas. But it's probably better for me to ask you to introduce yourself and touch on some of those areas, because I certainly can't give honour to all the things you've done. So maybe take a moment or two to introduce yourself. Maybe two thirds of our viewers are UK, we're about 20% US, but two thirds are the UK. So take a minute to and introduce yourself to our audience before we jump into your book.
Yeah, thank you, Peter. And also ColonelRetJohn on Substack will be Colonel Ret John all the time more Colonel Ret John than you can handle. And it'll just be a firehose of Colonel Ret John on Substack. But so Peter, I mean, I stopped counting at 35 years because I still have, I still do consulting, I'm very heavily involved in think tanking and things like that.
So I'm very involved in the game, but I stopped counting at 35 years, but I kind of break up my time into five eras of service. I came in during the Reagan years and the Cold War.
A child of the Cold War, I grew up in the Cold War with nuclear weapons, on alert, not too far from where I grew up.
I came in during the Cold War, during the last decade of the Cold War, and it was an exciting time. It was the Reagan era.
We were good, they were bad, and we were gonna put the Soviets out of business.
It was as simple as that.
It was an exciting time, some of the Reagan years. Then it evolved into the peace dividend years.
I did a tour in Bosnia, worked closely with the British in peace making and peacekeeping in Bosnia.
Learned a lot about a lot of things. So those are the peace dividend years when we'd wonder what is the purpose of our military?
What do we do with our military?
And then it evolved into the War on Terror. But it was, we even, even before then, this person named Osama kept on coming up in meetings, Osama.
This guy, Osama, what does this have to do with us? But I don't get it. Who is this guy?
Training camps in Afghanistan. So, I don't understand what's going on.
So, it was the War on Terror years. And it was, it was a righteous anger in the response.
But you know, as time has gone on, who knows some of the truth of things that went on.
But it was as we spun up the US and world machine to hunt down terrorists, for a period of time, things seemed to be working. But that started to morph into from the war on terror to the, I called it the, during the Obama, Biden years, the world in chaos, the world in chaos.
And then it became the, after that we'd say great power competition.
And now, as we realized what was going on with China, and now it's the great showdown with China.
The fifth act is the great showdown with China and the battle to save the republic here in America and actually worldwide.
Well I know we've had Frank Gaffney on talking about his book The Indictment on China. I know you're a fellow of the CSB, so one of your many other parts that you play. But going on to the book, if I can just bring up, this is what the viewers will find on the website. The Nation will follow. I'd encourage everyone to go there. I enjoyed John's book on audio. You can obviously get it as a hardback, paperback. And so much to find, so please go to the website and make use of the information available there. Order your copy. It's a short book, 200 pages. You can read it quite quickly. It'll give you such an overview of
The Deep State, really, in the situation there. But maybe I can bring you back. Chapter two, Encounter on the A-Ring, and the quote there, which obviously made you think of what was happening, was, we see more opportunities with her. Do you want to talk about that encounter and how that maybe opened your eyes to what was happening deeper.
Well, thank you, Peter. So roughly, it was like July 2016. And I was rushing to a meeting in the Pentagon, you always go to the A-Rank so you can get you can spin around and come out to the, the other part of the Pentagon. You can get to anywhere part of in the Pentagon in eight minutes, if you know, know how to navigate. I was rushing to a meeting. That's what you do in the Pentagon, you rush to meetings and I was in the A-ring, the inner circle of the A-ring and I ran into somebody who had been a Bush appointee, somebody I trusted, somebody I worked with very closely together, somebody I looked at as a mentor, a friend and I just, we ran into each other.
I said, well, what are you up to? Where are you going? He says, well, I'm being a greybeard.
That's being a sage counsel during some something, some meeting. I'm a grey beard.
And and I and I said, well, you know, I said, well, the didn't mean be political, but it was he was a Republican and a Republican appointee.
And I said, well, the convention's coming up at this point in time.
Trump had knocked out 16 in a row.
I was originally a Cruz guy. But hey, after seeing 16 knockouts in a row, I'm Trump.
OK. And I said, well, you're going to support Trump at the convention because I knew he was going to the convention. He said, this changed, first thing that changed my life was becoming a saved believer in Christ, but the second and not as important, but pretty important was what he said. He said, when I said, are you going to support Trump at the convention? He said, no, we see more opportunities with her.
And I was just, for a second I was just, I didn't know what to say and then I almost lunged at him and I said, who is we and what opportunities do you see? And I just, everything flashed in front of my eyes and my career. I said, Donald J. Trump was right. There is a swamp, there is a deep state, and I just ran headlong right into it. I was shocked.
And that, must, is you hadn't come across this in your time in the military. Maybe touch on how you made the step from, I guess, serving, you mentioned serving in Bosnia, how you, that move to actually being in the Pentagon, because the Pentagon is, I've driven past a number of times, and it's this iconic building. How did you end up actually physically being in there?
Well, that's a very interesting question. So after 9-11, I was actually with another government agency at that time.
I was in San Antonio. We home-schooled our son.
I was at a big conference in San Antonio on 9-11, I had my son with me.
He was in the room doing his work, but the TV was on. I
He said, Dad, you need to come to the TV, something's going on.
So I said, oh my. So bottom line, once we got back to the DCC, which is a story in itself, it's in the book.
I was actually sent to Central Command, Central Command, and I was in the J5, and I worked for Admiral Cunningham, Admiral Cunningham, not British fleet, Admiral Cunningham from earlier days, but I mean, this is American Navy, Admiral Cunningham.
We had no standing con plan or contingency plan for Afghanistan, shockingly enough.
We have a lot of what we call con plans, not for everything.
And this is one we didn't have for Afghanistan. So I was working outside of the Admiral's office with me, somebody from another government agency, an army planner, and a couple of Air Force C-17 drivers.
And so we're kind of trying to come up with the plan.
And so his door would be open and Rumsfeld or my president would be on the line saying, what is the blankety blank plan? Give us something.
And I felt like a script writer in Hollywood because we're outside, you know, okay, here's the deal. Here's what, here's the next one. They don't like that one.
Okay, here's what we're going to do next. So anyway, we came up with the plan for Afghanistan.
Shortly after that, I was sent to the Joint Staff because they needed a war planner inside what is called the J3 on the Joint Staff.
This is the highest staff in the universe. This was, until woke-ism, the best staff in the universe, all due respect to Whitehall, and I love my British Five Eyes partners.
And I've spent time in Whitehall, And I, there's more on that in the book, but so I went to J3 Special Operations to finish off the Afghan plan, work on other places like Yemen, which is such a beautiful and lovely country and so friendly and nice.
And then we started working on the plan for removing Mr. Hussein and started recruiting regime exiles and putting that plan together and executing that plan and going to Iraq to help stand up post-regime change government.
So that's how I ended up in the Pentagon. That's how I ended up in the Pentagon.
Wow. There's another part of the book that you describe a chance encounter with someone, whether it's chance or not is another issue, but on your way to London, and I remember listening to this, you discussing sitting at dinner and a strange encounter there, which I guess further made you think of what was happening.
Do you wanna explain that to the viewers?
Thank you, Peter. Yeah, this was October, first few days of October, six, seven, eight, nine, that area. And I was in, I was going to London for a Five Eyes meeting on information sharing. I was the American senior official to the Five Eyes information sharing, the five English speaking countries. On the plane, I saw somebody who had worked for years. He was a very senior FBI official, had retired. We chit chatted a bit on the plane and didn't quite understand what he was doing in London. But a few nights later.
Dinner, totally unrelated to the Five Eyes meeting, a common friend of ours had been in London and was giving a dinner. And at the dinner, my call, my retired senior law enforcement colleague, we all stand up and kind of sing for our supper and tell what are we, what is it we're passionate about? And he had an absolute meltdown. Remember, this is 30 days out from the election, and an absolute meltdown about Trump. And we're going to prove that Trump is a Russian asset, which later, when he gave classified testimony to Adam Schiff and it was revealed, he totally said, we have nothing, we have nothing on Trump.
So he, when he was, when he rose his right, when he gave, took an oath and was giving testimony, he said, we have nothing, we have nothing.
But in this public thing, he says, we're going to prove Trump is a Russian asset.
And I go, this is, this is insane.
Well, I've never seen him so just crazed like this. And I'm looking around the room, you know, people are probably globalist elites and they're all going fine, because they're saying, oh, come on, Hillary's going to clean up the floor with this Trump guy. It's going to be a knockout. I go, this is crazy. This is crazy. 30 days before the election. And if you do the forensics, and I did the forensics later because I gave a large statement on this to the Durham investigation, is when I did the forensics, he was a good friend of Comey, I knew that he was a good friend of Comey.
The only reason he would have been in London was to talk to chief of station.
That's an American term for the senior CIA official, Chief of Station.
Gina Haspel, Gina Haspel to finalize the Fusion GPS story, which was later proven to be fake.
Everybody lied about it. It was stunning. And I'm going, what am I witnessing? Somebody I trust.
I've been at many meetings at the White House, many meetings sitting across the table as we introduced the mass surveillance system from 2007-2014 and the Comprehensive National Cyber Security Initiative. And that was a good idea at the time. We're going to target bad people, terrorists. What could possibly go wrong?
And I want to get on the Trump side. And you made one step from Cruz to Trump. I was Carson Cruz Trump, so I took another step on. But at the beginning, in the first part, you have a chapter simply entitled, What is the Deep State? And we have touched on this just once before, actually, in many interviews, only once with Alex Newman, and he's coming out from a commentator's point of view, but you're coming out of from someone who's served in the military.
So a different aspect. So maybe you can explain, this is a term which I guess is, more familiar to our US audience and maybe our UK audience and is often, disparaged, dismissed and ridiculed, mocked and thrown out by the media, which makes you wonder when the media are throwing something out and dismissing something that makes you wonder why they are dismissive so quickly. But the deep state, maybe take a while and introduce what is actually the Deep State.
Well, I think you can break the deep state down to three basic components.
The first are the technocrats, and these are the senior ranking officials that kind of float in and out of government at the, as we're finding out, the fifth, I call it the fifth branch of government, the non-profits in America.
They go to the think tanks. I'm all for think tanks. I'm all for, but I'm for transparency and accountability. I'm all for think tanks, but they float into university. I'm a college professor, university professor myself and do a graduate course. I'm all for that, but, they kind of float in and out. These are the Fauci's. These are the Fauci's. Now Fauci actually never left government. He was literally the highest paid bureaucrat in the US government, But he was not just a simple bureaucrat.
He was a very senior technocrat that were, these are the ones that are the high priests of what is truth and what is the narrative.
And they cannot be questioned or you will be blacklisted.
You'll be side-lined if you dare question the technocrats. But then there's the bureaucrats.
Those are the careerists.
They can be uniformed military. They can be civilians, and I've been both.
You take an oath in office of both, in uniform or as a civilian in the US government.
But these are the bureaucrats that are beholden to the idea of no matter what the question is, the answer is government and more government.
Doesn't matter what the question is, The answer is a government program.
So you've got the technocrats, the bureaucrats, and then you've got the plutocrats. And these are the wealthy. Many of them dominate big tech. Nothing wrong with being wealthy. Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as it was properly and legally accrued. But they have immense wealth.
And as we saw with, you know, with big tech, you know, Elon Musk, you know, Facebook, Amazon, Jeff Bezos, all these, you know, they have immense power in America. You also have the venture capitalists that, you know, we're finding out and I've been to many of them, There's Anne Greeson Horowitz, Kleiner Perkins, Sequoia, etc. on Sand Hill Road in Silicon Valley.
So these plutocrats have immense wealth, nothing wrong with being wealthy, but they have undue influence and access because of that wealth.
So those are the three major components of the deep state.
And I guess the deep state had no intention, the media had no intention, the establishment had no intention of Trump actually winning that election.
And that changed the whole game. Suddenly someone was in the White House that was not part of the plan in whichever way you want to take that.
Tell us about that because you talk about that the forces that are there that really were opposing Trump at every step.
Yeah, absolutely.
Government has grown out of control and there are those in government say they're conservative, they're not conservative, most of them, they're beholden to government and big government and all powerful government, but in early 2016, we started suddenly these meetings started happening where the Russians are meddling in the election again.
Okay, well, interesting. And the cyber response group was a group that I was one of the original members of going back 2008, 2009. Because of several reasons, I would say I was eased out of that group. And these tremors and indicators were coming from the cyber response group.
So in these very classified meetings, we start, several people start going, tee hee, tee hee, It's the Russians again, and they're very interested in this Trump guy.
Very interested, and a lot of this is coming from our Five Eyes partners, because if you understand the American process of intelligence collection, we have very, what are supposed to be strict controls, but an end around that existed.
It was not normally used, but used was when one of your Five Eyes partners would come up to the operations table, because at most of these, these operations centers, you normally have your five eyes partners who are, who are there right with you. So you got a Brit, you got, Canadian, and an Australian and, and maybe 25% of a New Zealander, because they have to cover everything. So...
You know, you know, it too well.
So, and it's a wonderful partnership and it's a good partnership, but it's part of the basis for what spun out of control.
So they could, you could come up and it's called, it's called a table drop where one of your partners, and this can be used in several situations, but you know, your back is turned, you know, you're at the, you're at the centre table on the watch floor.
Of your Five Eyes partners walks up, you turn around, you turn back, and there's a piece of paper on the table. And it's like, ooh, what is that? Ooh, this is good. Ooh, it's very interesting. And, oh, it didn't come from us. So I don't have to worry if there is an American national in this collection because it didn't come from us.
It didn't come from us. It came from one of our partners. So there was that aspect, because there was all these inferences that all of this was coming from our Five Eyes partners, that Trump was mocked and pilloried for daring to say, because remember, he brought that up. And everybody's, oh, come on, come on. What are you talking about? No, no, that's exactly what happened.
That's exactly what happened. So a few days after the election, I was called by one of my careerist colleagues on the classified, the top secret phones, and John, you have got to be involved in this. We're standing up an interagency committee to finalize the Russian narrative and
delay or block Trump's first inauguration. I said, I just, I just, as soon as I sung up the phone, I just put my head in my hands on my desk. I said, I cannot believe this is going on. The simple short story is we ran the asset, but I'm a careerist. I took an oath of office.
If Trump is a Russian asset, I want to know about it. So the bottom line, November, December of 2016, we spun up. The outcome was there were no dinosaurs in this dinosaur park. There was no information. So, so this is what, this is one of the, we have Intel community assessments. I've been involved in a number, national intelligence estimates.
That's why we're spending $80 billion a year on the US intelligence community.
And that's an unclassified number that it's released. It's right on the DNI website.
And in this, there was no information. So in my write-up, because when that process, the package comes back to the departments and agencies, I write an action memo for the Secretary of Defense, who was Ash Carter, he's now dead.
And I said, sir, my recommendation is not concur. There is no information that shows that Trump is a Russian asset.
Even though the executive summary said Trump is a Russian asset, if you look in the body, there's nothing. We got nothing.
And I was told John, stand down, cease and desist. Ash already signed his Comey and Brennan are personally hands on keyboard typing this very brief document.
Which came out it's not the unclassified version is on the DNI website but if there's very little difference between these classified and top secret versions, its like what's the difference why do we even have two versions.
And they Oh, John, John, you don't understand we said, small dog, but in the public version, we said puppy, all the difference in the world. Okay, I said, This is utterly ridiculous. But so you never get a director of CIA, or FBI, personally typing these memos, that's what you have a staff for. And so this was a total coup before to try and prevent block Trump from even getting into office, but that the war never ceased and never stopped to this day.
John, I want to get on to the second book coming out. When you do anything with, I guess, the War Room Posse, having Stephen K. Bannon writing the intro, it becomes bigger and is part of a series now.
But I want to, as a Christian, I'm intrigued by someone who talks about their faith as quite central, and listening to that, that came across, and it's, I guess, a balance against the deep state that wants to remove that and provide its own truth and security.
But you talk about your Christian faith as providing, I guess, a foundation, a confidence, a certainty for you personally. How has that played, what importance has that played, I guess, in your career in the military and what you're doing now?
Well, we want to be, we live in this world as Christians, but we should not conform or be part of this world. Man, which includes man and woman, is imperfect and fallen, and we have to always realize that, but the secularist, those who want to drive God out of the public discussion are, it's all about me.
It's about me, me, me, and we're perfect. We have,
It is this presumption, and it's faulty, that we have ultimate knowledge of everything, and we are masters of our situation. We aren't. We aren't. And being a saved believer in Christ gives you what I call a known starting point in life, whether you're talking about position, navigation, or timing, or you're talking about life, it's a known starting point, and it sets you out differently. And I'll just give you a little vignette of why we should be different and just not fall into what is the trend of the day? Is it the cult of transgenderism? Is it this? Is it that? No, no, the book, Bible, King James Version, that's what I read, it's enduring, it transcends time, almost said the wrong word there, transcends time. And no matter what, it gives you a known starting point. And in the business of government or the business of business, in life, you're going to be have a lot of questionable situations, you're going to be put in whether you like it or not. And having a moral compass, that known starting point is a foundation, but a quick vignette. I used to have to travel with this Japanese general. And one time, he came up to me, and we were getting ready to go out on the day together to do some things. And he comes up to me. John, something is different about you, you're different, why are you different?
And I said, well, sir, I looked around, I go, I just didn't expect this, I said, sir, I'm a saved believer in Christ, and I'd like to share that message with you of his plan of salvation.
He was like, but it was an honour, this Japanese general, he'd seen something different in me. And I really appreciate that, respected it, and hopefully I was a good witness for Christ in that situation.
I've stayed in contact with him and hopefully planted that seed.
So that's where I think it's very important, Peter.
John, thanks for sharing your faith story. As I said, it's always fascinating.
And as I said before, what you started out, you may not have intended to be serious, I have no idea.
I know that Worm has a habit of making things bigger and grander and growing things.
And you're, the second book coming out, War Against the Deep State. When is this coming out?
It's available for pre-order now on thenationwillfollow.com.
Should be out in the fall here, September, October time period, and it's a great follow-up book that gives, talks about several things.
One of the big messages in The Nation Will Follow is in the American governance system, it's all about action, action, action at the county level.
We have roughly 3,300 counties in America and county equivalents, a city can be a county.
And it's all about government. It's all about the foundation of our governance.
And if anybody is not happy with the way things are going in the swamp in D.C., the swamp in D.C. and the elite stand upon the shoulders of the nanny staters at the county level.
What the left has done in America is, over 50 years, they've taken over the seven common centres of gravity in America and our county. It's the school board, county council, election board, registrar, judges, sheriffs, and prosecutors. We have to take those back. We've lost them over 50 years. In book two, we go into greater detail on that. We give some good success stories. We also talk about the foundations of the surveillance state, which I was one of the creators of, unfortunately, in the 2007 to 2014.
So more-
That's something that fascinates me because we have now seen live facial recognition across London, across the UK, widened out, and a huge abuse of, so we have the online safety bill coming in the UK, which will bring in the most, the biggest control, I guess, of what is said online.
And I know that a number of, I know that Wikipedia, Signal, a number of others said they'll have to pull out of the UK.
But talk to us about that mass surveillance state because that seems to be where we are going as a society.
Well, in the book, Ordinance of the Deep State, I give the genesis and foundation of mass surveillance.
And it was really, as the war on terror started, we realized we need to be better on scale. And now I've learned to be very careful about that word scale, globalists and elites and deep staters love the word scale, because they want to always control on scale. But yeah, tracking, hacking, individual cell phone is one thing or an individual computer is one thing. Doing it in an enduring manner on a mass scale is something very different. And you have to automate, you have to do it, use artificial intelligence, you can't just use throw more humans at the problem. So you have to create these structures. The foundation was the Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative started during the, toward the end of the Bush period, Obama came on board, they did a review, they liked it, they loved it, they wanted more of it, so they poured gas on it. And it exploded because it's almost intoxicating to the policy person, to the senior official. And the question is not, it was not, it was no longer can we, the question should have been should we, because it got out of control.
It just, it became, when you see the mass scale that is capable, that is possible, Everybody just,
just goes bonkers they lose their minds they said yeah, it's you could get anything you want in split seconds and believe me, people don't understand this until we've actually sat in the, one of the control centres at one of the intelligence communities or five eyes partners and see what what what I mean by that because it's it's breath-taking what can be had, we see
Hollywood versions. But a lot of this stuff is, and sometimes is even better, and it becomes dangerous because it starts to establish a mastery of government over the citizen.
In the American system, definitely, the people are the owners of the government, not the other way around.
But if you're one of the elite, going in and out of government, think tanks, universities, You don't worry about what the common folks say.
It's irrelevant, because they're too stupid. And that's been said.
I've seen that at the White House. I've heard that said at the White House on both the Bush and the Obama era.
A citizen is too stupid to know what they want, yet we're going to decide for them.
Verbatim, that's been said.
And that's bad. That is really dangerous.
Because then you start the pathway down to socialism, totalitarianism, communism, and that's dangerous.
So these are tools and the campuses out in the Virginia countryside that have now been established are derived from that program.
Actually, I managed, I was the DOD senior lead for that and I had budget oversight over immense amount of money.
And a lot of those campuses out on the Virginia countryside were born from that program. And so no longer do we have your old school CIA operative trying to buy off somebody in some remote country. I mean, that's dangerous. It's dirty.
You don't get to see the kids and family at night. So why don't you just do it remotely and do it remotely. But it also became exciting because, what, who cares about what's going overseas. What about domestically? Why don't we just use it to start unmasking those Americans and expose what those Americans are saying in these intercepts? We're supposed to be focused on the foreign threat. No, no, no, we don't care about the foreign threat. We want to know who's opposing Obamacare? Who's opposing the growth of government? Who doesn't agree with us? And we just had an incredibly important court order.
I'm number 862 on the Twitter top 10,000 of those silenced by Twitter, you know, and we just had an incredible court finding where a federal judge in Louisiana said, hold on federal government.
You can't collude with big tech. You are not allowed to collude with big tech on this. He goes, I don't, this is wrong. You cannot do this. We knew, everybody knew about this. We knew about this. We knew about this. And, you know, and Merrick Garland's Department of Justice, instead of saying, you're right, judge, we shouldn't collude with big tech to spy on American citizens.
Merrick Garland is, and just got overruled, introduced a petition to, you know, stay that judge's ruling. Why? Because DHS CISA on Glebe Road wants to continue what they call the customer access portal, where government officials can directly reach into big tech and social media and identify and throttle American citizens. And again, that's very important for me.
I have a legal team working on a filing.
This was a huge, huge finding for this judge to, to, to cease this program and we need to know the truth. And who's leading this right now? Jenny Silly.
Jenny Silly, retired Army O5 from, spent a lot of time at Fort Meade, very close to Keith Alexander, the former director of NSA and, and Cyber Command.
And she was one of the ones I worked on in the early days of the CNCI.
And she's upset, Biden's upset that they can't collude with big tech to silence America.
Ladies and gentlemen, we got to fight.
We got to fight and we got to bring down the deep state because they will, they will destroy every one of us.
And I know that, although I watched it closely, and I know you talk about that, the cancer of big government and that big tech collusion. Maybe I could ask you about the Durham report, because obviously many of those in position of power have done all they can do. They failed to keep Trump out in 2016, but they've done all they can do to try and discredit him.
And that's been part of the Durham report. Do you want to just let us know how that has transpired?
What kind of has been the outcome of that?
Well, I gave a number of statements. I had to update them as more truth was revealed to the Durham investigation. And I know we didn't get a slam dunk home run or whatever the British sports appropriate British sports term is.
We didn't get a, yeah, I know Steve Bannon and others, I mean, I wasn't totally happy, but there were many good things that came out.
Now, first of all, I'd say the mere fact that Durham was able to release a report, if you, understand the deepest part of the deep state is the Department of Justice and the Department to Justice front office.
I worked with them closely during the Trump years and getting anything out of the DOJ front office was a miracle.
Because they hated Trump and they were totally undermining Barr, even though Barr was in the end the best anyway either, but they were totally undermining Barr, everything.
So the mere fact that he got it out was incredible.
The second thing was he also, It was a horrific indictment, informal indictment of the entire federal law enforcement and intelligence community.
The third, I would say, now I think this was part of the negotiation between Bulldog Durham and Garland to get the report out is, yeah, you've got this FBI retired guy McGonigal, the senior executive, he's been arrested, indicted for taking payoffs from the Russians, but we're not gonna call it part of the Durham report.
We're just gonna announce it, it's gonna be separate, and we're not gonna connect it to the Durham report.
Very likely information I gave at Durham led to McGonigal, and for everybody's reference, Charles McGonigal in 2015, 2016 was the senior FBI official in charge of counterintelligence in the FBI field office, the largest FBI field office.
And so here's the guy who's supposed to be investigating Russia interference in the election, Russia penetration of the Trump campaign, and he retires and is arrested for what?
Unlawfully working for the Russians. Now, of course, the pious elitist would say, oh, but he was retired. It has nothing to do with his government service. Oh, come on.
These things just don't come out of thin air. Those tentacles of him working for the Russians go back years, years before he retired. So it was a huge finding. The guy who was supposed to be the trusted FBI chief in charge of Russia, Russia, Russia, has been arrested. His whole life is a mess now. He's going to prison, I guarantee that. And he's been arrested for working for the Russians. So that was huge. Now there's also five in, they're called criminal referrals, oftentimes just simplified to referrals. You never, I didn't get through 35 plus years of government service never being charged or indicted without understanding intimately the traps and the unforced errors of the environment, but you never want your name to be associated with a referral. That is known as a bad thing. Five criminal referrals are on page 11 of Durham. Well, three of those five sure sound an awful lot like information that I gave to the Durham investigation. So not a home run, maybe not even a triple, but there was good things that came out of the Durham report and these things take time. It's not over yet and we got to just keep on fighting and swinging. And as somebody from England said, never ever, ever, ever give up, never, ever surrender.
Absolutely. Colonel Retired John Mills, I so appreciate you coming on. As I said, I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the book. If I can just bring it up once again to encourage, whether you're US, UK, Europe, you can get a hold of it either as a physical book or as an audiobook and then part two, the next part of the series is coming very soon.
John said the fall for American viewers, autumn for UK viewers.
It is coming soon, but do get a copy.
You'll really enjoy reading, understanding what lies behind a lot of what we are seeing and it will educate you massively.
So John, I appreciate you coming on.
Thank you so much for your time today.
Peter, thank you so much. Honoured to be on with you, all my UK brothers and sisters and all freedom-loving people in Europe. Thank you so much, Peter.